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Chinese royalty today
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xiaoABC -

Does anyone know about what some modern Chinese royalty are doing today? I read somewhere that one
Chinese princess is a model. I know there isn't royalty today, just talking about descendants.



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Quest -

在王府井卖烧饼。

The model you read about is probably fake, and she's a Manchu princess. The last known Han
princess got her arm cut off by her dad and became a nun according to legends... Most Chinese
people today probably have a drop or two of royal blood from many of the dynasties and kingdoms...










shibo77 -

The younger brother of the last emperor is 爱新觉罗·溥任 or 金友之 he worked in
education and is now retired living in Beijing. He has a son 金毓嶂, he has a political office
in one of Beijing's districts.

-Shibo










skylee -

Good to know that some of them have changed the name to 金. I was wondering if they had it
changed ... 金 is a very logical and convenient name ...

Have they all changed the name to 金? What was 啓功's surname? 啓? 金? 愛新覺羅？

A google search seems to show that some people have kept the name 愛新覺羅.

PS - I've found something written by 啓功, which touches on the name ->



Quote:

我既然叫啟功，當然就是姓啟名功。有的人說：您不是姓愛新覺羅名啟功嗎�
��很多人給我寫信都這樣寫我的名和姓，有的還用新式標點，在愛新覺羅和��
�功中間加一點。還有人叫我「金啟功」。對此，我要正名一下。「愛新」是
女真語，作為姓，自金朝就有了，按意譯就是「金」，但那時沒有「覺羅」�
��兩個字。「覺羅」是根據滿語gioro的音譯。它原來有獨自的意思。按清制：
稱努爾哈赤的父親塔克世為大宗，他的直系子孫為「宗室」，束金黃帶，俗�
��「黃帶子」，塔克世的父親覺昌安兄弟共六人，俗稱「六祖」，對這些非��
�克世──努爾哈赤「大宗」的伯、叔、兄、弟的後裔稱「覺羅」，束紅帶，
俗稱「紅帶子」，族籍也由宗人府掌管，政治經濟上也享有特權，直到清亡�
��才廢除。清朝時，把這個「覺羅」當作語尾，加到某一姓上，如著名作家��
�舍先生，原來姓「舒舒」氏，後來加上「覺羅」，就叫「舒舒覺羅」，而老
舍又從「舒舒」中取第一個「舒」字做自己的姓，又把第二個舒字拆成「舍�
��字和「予」字，做自己的名字，就叫舒舍予。同樣，也把「覺羅」這個語��
�，加到「愛新」後面，變成了「愛新覺羅」，作為這一氏族的姓。也就是說
，本沒有這個姓，它是後人加改而成的。再說，覺羅帶有宗室的意思，只不�
��是「大宗」之外的宗室而已，在清朝滅亡之後，再強調這個覺羅，就更沒��
�意義了。這是從姓氏本身的產生與演變上看，我不願意以愛新覺羅為姓的原
因。












Quest -

Interesting, thanks skylee.










xiaoABC -

Whoa! The younger brother of the last emporer is still alive?










Koneko -

How different do you think China would become if it is still ruled by the Emperor?

Would China become stronger both politically and financially?
There would be no Taiwan issue?

K.










libertango -

Quest, where can I find information about the Han princess legend. Searching with "Han" and
"Princess" makes everything that comes up about Star Wars. Searching Chinese isn't helping either.










trien27 -

Last Emperor "Henry" Puyi Aisin-Gioro had a younger brother(forgot his name: since they're
brothers, they have the same "generation name" of Pu?[? in place of his name]). His younger
brother changed his family name into Chinese using the definition of their surname: Aisin*, see
below. His younger brother's daughter(the article I read this from didn't mention her name), who
would be a Princess, or HRH, if the Ching/Qing dynasty still existed. I read an article where her
ancestors would have been shocked to know that she works for Motorola in China!

Doing a search using these words "last emperor younger brother daughter", might give you the
article.

*Aisin is the surname = Jin in Chinese. It means "Gold" in Manchu.**, as in gold & silver.
***Gioro isn't a surname, but something that means "descendant" or something similar.

***Source for this is in Skylee's post of information regarding "Chi-gong/Qi-gong"
** Manchu is the English name for the language, whereas Manchurian(s) should be the proper name
for the ethnic group. Peoples in China were divided into 5 "racial/ethnic groups": Man(Chinese
abbreviated form for Manchurians), Han(Chinese), Meng(Mongols), Hui(Muslims/Turks/Uigurs/Uyghurs),
Zuang(Tibetans).
*Aisin is the original surname since the Jin dynasty. The dynasty probably got it's name from the
rulers's surname of Aisin, and translated it into Chinese to become Jin[my theory]. Descendants
added Gioro to the surname later on.

Sorry. I don't have Chinese software so I have to write all the names in Pinyin.










trien27 -

To libertango:
Han Princesses.
There would have little information on them in Chinese history, because they are daughters and
would be married and so won't be carrying the family name, therefore not worth mentioning at all.

Don't search for "Han Princesses", but rather "Han Chinese Princesses"












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Chinese Tutor - Finding your voice -

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
Finding your voice
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kdavid -

Hello all,

How many of you have found your Chinese "voice?" And by "voice" I guess I mean accent. It doesn't
take a rocket scientist to differentiate between the sounds of English and Chinese, but how well
can westerners actually mask their native accents when speaking another language? Or, are we
doomed to always hear that "there's just something... different."

Also, what techniques are you using (if at all) to change the sound of your voice? The only
example I can think of is changing the muscles / moving your mouth differently when speaking, as,
for example, when doing an Irish / Scottish accent (or any other for that matter).

I've been astounded to meet many English language students who speak with perfect American /
British accents. I've always been envious of this ability and really want to have the perfect
northeastern Chinese accent.

Thanks in advance!



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Jive Turkey -

The idea that it is impossible for an adult learner to attain native-like proficiency in an L2
once held axiomatic status in both popular and academic discussions of language acquisition. Folks
who believe that you will never achieve native-like skills usually base their arguments on the
critical period hypothesis. One of the stronger claims that the pro-CHP people once made is that
adult L2 learners can't acquire native-like pronunciation. Interestingly, this is one dimension of
performance where research in the past few years has shown that adult learners definitely can
reach native-like levels. The common factors for subjects who tested within native ranges for
pronunciation (or other dimensions of performance) were length of residence, age on arrival and
various affective variables. Most of these people arrived in the L2 country in their twenties and
were dead set on assimilating. So yes, you can have a native-like accent. Most people don't,
though.

Getting to native level in pronunciation would be a long road, but the best thing you can do is
become a good listener and analyst of the sounds you here. You can't pronounce natively that which
you can't hear or distinguish from other sounds. Don't just focus on segmental features of the
language; also try to pay attention to and mimic sentence level features like stress and
intonation. Don't worry too much about manipulating the muscles in your throat and mouth to make
new sounds. That is actually not something that seems to be affected by maturation for most
people. Your throat and mouth will eventually get comfortable with the new sounds you're making.










Hero Doug -

Nice post Jive Turkey, but what do you mean by L2?

From what I gather this is a foreign country where they speak a different language then you do?










Lu -

L2 = 2nd Language.










Xiao Kui -

Recently I find that my "voice" has begun to sound remarkably more (in rhythm at least) like the
narrator of a Chinese audio book I've been listening too and the CRI broadcasters. So I guess your
voice will end up sounding like whichever Chinese people you listen to most - you'll end up
imitating them either on purpose or, in my case, subconsciously.










Hero Doug -

Thanks for the confirmation










Gulao -

I'm fairly far along this road, I feel. At this point, I can actually distinguish aspirated from
unaspirated on a fairly regular basis without resorting to asking myself whether it sounds more
like a voiced or voiceless consonant. Furthermore, I spent a year or two ensuring that at least my
places of articulation were correct. I've also been observing the way that tones act in speech;
they aren't static in terms of the area of the range they occupy, but rather can appear in
different places. Contour is more important.

The one thing I have trouble with is a more authentic style of speech and syntactical
understanding. The latter is simply English paradigms infringing on the weaker Chinese ones. The
former is more that I feell like if I began to adopt chinese mannerisms of emphasis and
intonation, it'd feel like I was trying too hard, and would just look silly to Chinese. I know
this is probably an inaccurate view, but it's more of a subconscious hang-up than something I can
just sweep under the rug, unlike the heckling I get from my white American peers for paying such
diligent attention to tones (they call me 古声调; how mean).










Kellian -

I just copy my friends... they think it's pretty funny when I say "okay-la"... recently a teacher
told me "we don't say dui-yaaaaaa" and then I realised that I'd been hanging around my Taiwanese
friend who says "dui-yaaaaaa" a lot. Actually, though my Chinese itself isn't stellar, a lot of
people have told me that my accent for the stuff I own is pretty good. For the longest time, I
really thought that the word for shao zi (spoon) was sao zi cause I live in Shanghai. If you don't
have Chinese friends, you can always watch sitcoms and movies- press pause... copy...rewind...
play... repeat. Every non-native English speaker I've met with a perfect accent has learned it by
copying friends or TV. But I think personally my safest bet is to expect that my voice will be
that of a laowai speaking Chinese.










Hero Doug -

As long as I'm understood (which is still rare sadly) I'm happy. Way back in the day when I was
studying French I had a book that kept reiterating "near enough is good enough". I personally like
that kind of thinking because even if I take the time to learn one lesson perfectly, which would
take a lot longer, I'll use or say parts of that lesson incorrectly later anyways because it's so
fresh.

As for my voice, I'm not really studying speaking right now, so I have the voice of, well, someone
who sucks.












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Learn Chinese online - Visa questions?????? "L" and "D" - Page 2 -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China
Visa questions?????? "L" and "D"
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889 -

Remember that by agreement between the US and China, Americans should be receiving one-year
multiple-entry tourist and business visas from China.

This is Maura Harty, Assistant Secretary of State, speaking about the agreement in Beijing on
March 2, 2005:

"Well, it is reciprocal. So that -- in the case of the business and tourist travel, they are
giving to American citizens -- they are -- by the reciprocal nature of the agreement, we are to
give to Chinese citizens in the tourist and business category one year multiple entry visas and
the Government of China has agreed to give the same thing to an American coming, as well."

http://www.usembassy-china.org.cn/pr...030305pre.html

If you are unable to get a one-year multiple-entry visa in accordance with the agreement, let the
Bureau of Consular Affairs at the State Department know.



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liuzhou -



Quote:

If you are unable to get a one-year multiple-entry visa in accordance with the agreement, let the
Bureau of Consular Affairs at the State Department know.

Yes, that'll do the trick!












djwebb2004 -

The worse thing about all this visa business is that it is all so pointless. It is as if the
modern concept of visas was specially invented for Chinese bureaucracy to have fun with: the
various categories of visas, all with minute regulations, and different prices for different
nationalities, and some you can extend in-country, and some you have to leave to get (just to ****
you in the a*** a little bit more). Hong Kong is a haven of sanity by contrast. Just imagine how
lovely it would be if the whole of China were a free port like HK, or if the nonsense was kept to
a minimum in the following way: All the visa categories and the various explanations of why you
need to be in China could be abolished, and simply replaced by a single visa to enter China for
one month, available from all embassies for a flat fee. This could be supplemented by a single
type of residence permit, always multiple entry, and always available for a year at a time,
renewable an infinite number of times, with no big explanations of what you are doing in China
required, available for purchase from any police station in China, with no need to ever leave the
country. Sigh. Leave the country in order to stay in China - now that's where the Chinese
bureaucrats have really won! The illogical logic finally begins to make sense!










889 -

Did I say it'd solve your problem?

But the State Department should know they're confusing and misleading Americans by publicising an
agreement which seems to be nothing of the sort.

Myself, I'd like to see them stop giving one-year multiple-entry visas to Chinese until there's
true reciprocity.










nitropuppy -

Well, I had a brief glimmer of hope when I read "smalldogs" comment. A one year "L" visa (for a
spouse) sounded like my answer. Felt good. Felt confident. Then the other comments flowed slowly
in. Multiple answers, mulitple contradictions, multiple scenario's,.......multiple confusion.
Does anybody see what I mean? Have I asked an impossible question? Is this the "Black Hole" of the
visa world matrix? Is this as difficult to discover as the "Unified Field Theory" ? Isn't there an
expert in quantum visa physics ? STUNNING!
The answers here range from ...."no problem, just get a 1 year spouse tourist visa" to "no matter
what,you must leave every sixty days" to " just bribe your way in" to calling my governments
attention to the injustice". Of course, I'm paraphrasing and reading some between the lines. Let's
see ....."OK! Bob, I'll take door number three." Door opens, a sound of Eeeerrrrr. Audience
laughs. "Ohhhh, I'm sorry contestant. But, you've won a descented skunk and a box of Stella Dora
breadsticks." I slump off to my chair, trying to hide my humilition.










Xander -

Just posting this, don´t know if it works.

Apply for a year of study at at University in China, they issue the Visa, and you can get to China
with your one year visa. Dont show up, so you don´t have to pay the tution fee, and live in China
for one year. There does not seem to be any connection between the local police station (where you
have to register when coming to China) and the university, so to me it doesn´t seem like a
problem. I have never tried it myself though, and it seems way too easy. They probably put you in
jail if they find out.










nitropuppy -

Sorry Xander, but you're right. A person doing that, would get in trouble. Most likely not jail.
But, certainly fined and deported. No,.... I won't break the laws. I don't do that in America, I
certainly won't do that in China. I want to contribute to my host country in some way. Live with
my wife and be happy. Get to know the beauty of China's culture. If I must, I'll get a job
teaching english. I just don't want to get strapped with a full time job there.










djwebb2004 -

nitropuppy, don't make things too hard for yourself. It really is devastatingly simple. Get a
one-month L visa, go to China. When in China apply through the Emoo agency (emoo.net) for a
one-year F business visa that will allow you to live in China for a year without working or
studying.










smalldog -

Here's another option for you: how about getting married in Hong Kong? My wife and I got married
in Hong Kong due to the bureaucratic hassles of the mainland, the advantages of having a marriage
certificate in English and Chinese, and the generally more romantic atmosphere there. This was
followed by celebrations in my wife's hometown.

In terms of visas, your best bet is probably to get a 30 or 60 day tourist visa in the US and then
extend it once you are in China (you'll find adverts for such services in the expat magazines in
Beijing, Shanghai or Guangzhou). Alternatively you could enter China via Hong Kong and apply for a
90-day tourist visa there (unfortunately as a US citizen you can't use the agencies which sell 6
month visas).

Once you are married and in China on an L visa you can apply in your wife's hometown for a one
year extension -- no need to leave the country. Ask you wife to call her local 出入境管理所
(exit-entry administration office) for details of how to apply.










djwebb2004 -

As a US citizen, you can get a one-year F visa through Emoo, as I said. See
http://www.emoo.net/modules/icontent/index.php?page=5. It specifically states that it can get it
for US citizens for 4200 yuan.












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HSK - Doing CELTA course in China -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China > Teaching English in
China
Doing CELTA course in China
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Horse -

Just wondering if anyone has done a CELTA course while living in China? I'm living in Qingdao and
need to get one for a job i'm applying for. I understand its a four-week course, is that right?
Would like to know anything about costs, where i can do it, and duration. Any information would be
gratefully received.
Cheers
Horse



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Fireblade -

CELTA? I've done one in the UK.

Why bother as most employers in China don't recognise it. Any piece of paper saying that you have
a teaching cert is usually enough.

A CELTA is hell, believe me.

A good one would be a TKT, I'm fairly sure you could do one here, maybe Beijing.

www.cambridgeesol.org/TKT/










roddy -

A lot of employers will know what is is, some will be willing to pay extra for it, and the best
will require it. And if you are looking at teaching long-term either in China or elsewhere it
makes a lot of sense to get it under your belt as soon as possible.

Language link have a schedule and price list for their Celta in Beijing - price looks comparable
to Europe? Not sure, been years since I paid any attention. They also do the TKT, which I think it
designed for non-native teachers of English.

Wouldn't say the CELTA is hell - intense maybe, but the content is hardly rocket science. As long
as you are managing your time ok you'll be fine.










wushijiao -

I did one in Shanghai. I think the CELTA really teaches you a lot, or at least as much as they can
in a one month course. In my case, most of the language/linguistic theory was easy because I had
done all the pre-reading they had given to me. But I really valued the in-class critiques of my
lessons. I think that that practical aspect is very valuable, especially if you have been teaching
in China for a while. Most students and colleagues don’t really know how to give you practical
advice that you can use, even if you recognize that your classes could be improved.

Personally, I didn’t think it was too hard (mainly because I had heard all the gruesome war
stories of my friends and co-workers who had done it in years past, so I was expecting the worst).
It is intense though. And you will work all day long, everyday for a month.

It’s true that CELTA isn’t widely recognized so far in China. Yet, I do think it is getting
more recognized, especially at some of the more reputable schools.










Horse -

Why bother doing a CELTA? Because without it you've got no qualifications as an English teacher
and after 'teaching' for a while without one i'm not comfortable taking money off people for a job
i'm not doing as well as i could.
Thanks for the info Roddy and Wushijiao. Im sure its not exactly splitting the atom, looks like
i'll be giving it a whirl in Beijing










Fireblade -

I suppose if you have adequate experience of teaching it would not be so hard. I had no
experience, so I found it a sruggle. What it teaches you is very valuable however.

I thought a TKT was aimed at native speakers and non-native speakers that want to teach, could be
wrong though.










Mitchell67 -

I've been in China now for a month and I've not been held accountable to anything that would
reflect any sort of teaching qualifications. I'd like to however better my working conditions in
the long run but I've gotten conflicting information about the relative merits of any certification
I've read posts by people with ESL training and observed their classrooms and was embarassed by
their poor command of English. On the other hand, I've heard that CELTA is primarily for Canadian
teachers and then it's also a qualification to teach other teachers.

I also would like to think that with experience my qualifications will increase but I have serious
doubts given the low expectations that I have placed on me here, the low position of oral english
in this institution, and how that will be looked upon in any further employment search.

What really is the most cost effective certification that can be gotten online?










Springbokke -

Hi MItchell67

I am currently enrolled in a CELTA course in Durban, South Africa.

First, let me assure you that the CELTA (Certificate in English Language Training for Adults) is
an international certificate offered through Cambridge University and in no way is designed for,
or confined to a specific nationality. That this may be the case in China I cannot say, although I
would find this a dubious link with Cambridge.

Second, Although from posts on this forum it apears CELTA is not likely to make any substantial
difference in successfully landing a job in China (for now), I can assure you it will assist your
ability to teach better, and presumably enjoy your experience that much more.

Lastly, the course workload is large. As far as intensity goes, if you have ever waited on tables,
it is kind of like your first day at peak hour - you start off overwhelmed but gradually you find
your rhythmn get used to the pace. Before you know it, you have spare time!

Good luck.










F.G.7167 -

Hi,

I did the CELTA at language link Beijing, and would highly recommend it. the only bad point about
the CELTA is that due to its intensive nature the second half of it more or less went over my
head. It is a good qualification, and along with the trinity certificate are the only two
internationally recognised qualifications. I am currenly working for language link teaching and
promoting an paid internship we are running, starting in septmber 2007 for nine months. Basically
its a light teaching schedule (which doesn't start until you've already recieved some training)
integrated with teacher training by a CELTA tutor, for the full nine months, this is probably the
best way to learn how to teach. Otherwise our next CELTA course starts on 2nd of June, and then
the 13th of October. if you are intersested you can check out our website: www.languagelink.com.cn
or email me at qualify@languagelink.com.cn

All the best and good luck!










pandaxiongmao -

With the CELTA, you are also paying for evaluators to come out during the course and evaluate the
CELTA tutors. They want to make sure the level of teaching and the quality of marks in the CELTA
course is uniform no matter where it is being held.

As a result, many of the top tier schools require a CELTA, especially if the student in question
is not from a native English speaking country.

Other courses may in fact have better content (I don't know, since I took the CELTA myself), but
will close you off from certain teaching opportunities. If it is just an average job that you
want, then sure, the name doesn't matter.












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HSK - How would a unified Korea benefit China/Japan? - Page 2 -

> Extras > Other cultures and language
How would a unified Korea benefit China/Japan?
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wushijiao -



Quote:

Ways of thinking are culture and culture can change, nothing is inevitable.

I agree, but it has to be done systematically. Personally, I think good example of human rights
and personal freedoms being institutionalized is the EU. In Asia, in contrast, there aren't any
strong multi-national frameworks to solve some of the most sensitive issues, and so I think
countries still have to look at foreign relations from a realists' point of view.



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Learn Chinese online - Cyndi's 月光... -

> Chinese Culture > Music
Cyndi's 月光...
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weteck -

Hello everyone much help would be highly appreciated.
I have been searching for the japanese version of 王心凌's 月光 for a long time but I just
don't know the name of the japanese song. And just probing around listening to all songs by trial
and error is very cumbersome. So does anyone know the Japanese singer/song that was converted to
Cyndi's song (or maybe the other way around...)??
It would be great help. Thanks everybody



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skylee -

It is 亞麻色の髪の乙女 sung by 島谷瞳 (Shimatani Hitomi).

Listen -> 亞麻色頭髮的少女

Next time you could try searching with the title of the chinese song and the words "原曲".










x_o 88 -

i never knew that was a cover. thanks










weteck -

thank you thank you!!!!













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Chinese Character - Cathay Pacific 60th Anniversary TV Ads -

> Chinese Culture > Films and Television
Cathay Pacific 60th Anniversary TV Ads
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skylee -

I think they are good ->

Part 1 -> 童夢情緣 (My First Love) (in Cantonese with english subtitles)

Part 2 -> 手足情深 (My Brother and Me) (in Cantonese)

Part 3 -> 啟德歲月 (Kai Tak Boys) (in Cantonese)



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XueXueXue IQChinese Get beyond the plateau.Take your Mandarin to a new level.
Chinese in Lijiang Short term Chinese study in a beautiful town with a focus on daily life.
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Quest -

Didn't you post them before?










HashiriKata -



Quote:

Didn't you post them before?

Once won't be enough for something you enjoy. I sometimes listen to some songs until my head goes
spinning .












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