Learning Mandarin - The Dragon Festival 端午节 Duanwu Jie -

> Chinese Culture > Chinese History
The Dragon Festival 端午节 Duanwu Jie
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shunyadragon -

When the stories of Chinese holidays and festivals come to us in condensed versions we do not
always get the whole story. When I lived in China I made an effort research in more depth the
holidays and festivals of China. What is called the Dragon Boat Festival is somewhhat misleading
as to the true nature and origins of the festival. It is indeed the Dragon Festival, and there is
much more to the story than most Chinese and foreigners realize.

Dragon Festival

The Dragon Festival, 端午节 Duanwu Jie or 端阳节 Duanyang Jie, sometimes called the Dragon
Boat Festival, is celebrated some time in June on fifth day of the fifth lunar month. The origins
of the festival are likely very ancient. According to Wen Yiduo 闻一多(1898-1946), a modern
poet and scholar this festival had its beginnings over 5,000 years ago in the ancient kingdoms of
Wu and Yue located in present day Jiangsu and Zhejiang Provinces. The celebration of this festival
was likely inspired as ceremonies, sacrifices and offerings to the Dragon of the Eastern Sea to
prevent the floods, drought, and plagues of insects and disease that often occurred around this
time of year.

This day was considered to be the beginning of an important period in the change of seasons that
could make it a bountiful year or a very bad year. It was considered a day that could possibly
bring bad fortunes, because of the potential for spring and summer disasters. The purpose of most
of these ceremonies was to appease the great Father Dragon of the Eastern Sea and other gods to
prevent drought, floods, plague, insect swarms like grasshoppers, and diseases. The throwing of
zongzi in the river was originally part of this ceremony. Many of the ancient ceremonies and
traditions are still commonly practiced on China, though they mostly do not have the same meaning
today. The overwhelming threat of floods, drought, plagues and disease is not as great today.
Modern science and technology has replaced these beliefs with alternative solutions to these
problems.

Traditionally in ancient times offerings, like 粽子zongzi first described as rice or millet
filled bamboo tubes were thrown into the river or sea to appease the dragon. Zongzi is a popular
traditional dish eaten all year in South China, and it became the central food representing the
tradition of Dragon Festival all over China. It takes many forms and uses different fillings
around China, but the most common form is a triangular four point wrapping made of a wide bamboo
or reed leaf common in China. The practice of wrapping the zongzi in leaves is said to begin
during the reign of Emperor Guangwu (25-26 AD) of the Han Dynasty when Qu Hui saw a man near the
traditional site where 屈原Qu Yuan committed suicide on the Miluo River. The man told Qu Hui he
was the Minister in charge of three aristocratic families of the Chu Kingdom. He also told him,
“It is okay to make offerings in memory of me by throwing packaged rice into the river. In the
past the fish ate all the rice in the bamboo tubes, therefore in the future please wrap them in
Chinaberry leaves and tie them with colored thread. The fish will be afraid of these two things
and will not eat your offerings.”

Today zongzi filling varies, but the main filling consists of white millet called glutinous rice
and possibly yellow millet, or a mix of the two. In the south the zongzi are usually larger and
contains salty dried pork, beef or chicken, or a salty egg yolk. In the north they are smaller and
may contain Chinese dates, peanuts, walnuts, or other stuff, and they are often eaten with sugar.
Some eat their eggs before sunrise, and some dye the eggs red.

"Fetching noon water" was the traditional practice of getting water from a well at noon, believing
it had special medicinal properties to cure illness, and an egg that is stood on its end at twelve
o'clock means a whole year of good luck. Some. Especially childern knock two eggs together and
which ever one does not break promises the winner good luck, health and fortune.

Rainbow colored decorations and adornments are common today as a part of the festival. The
decorations range from simple forms of folded paper to elaborate colorful folk crafts. Many people
wear bracelets made of five colors of thread or string on their wrists or ankles. The colors vary
but seem to always include red, yellow and blue. Other colors used are white, pink, black and
green. In some places the traditional colors chosen are the same as those that are use to paint
the dragon boats in the race. These ornaments were believed to offer protection against disease
and misfortune. They put these on sometime between the first day of the fifth lunar month, Dragon
Festival Day and take them off and throw them into a running stream during the first heavy rain
after that day. One story I was told is that the five color thread turns into a baby dragon as it
journey’s to the sea. Other colorful items include red or rainbow colored paper gourds, and
mythical figures.

Mythical persons also play a role in the festival. Placing a picture of 钟馗Zhongkui, the
legendary ghost catcher, on the front door to guard the house is still commonly done today. Small
stuffed colorful human figures, and the animals of the Chinese astrology are hung around the
house. Monkeys with a club in their hand are especially popular in some areas.

Dragon boat racing is an important part of the festivities, particularly in the soth along the
larger rivers and in is reality older than the death of 屈原Qu Yuan, whom some believe the race
commemorates the search for him after he jumped into the river. It began in the south along the
Chang Jiang River and its tributaries, but they are now performed elsewhere in China today where
there is a large river. Dragon boats are about 20 to 40 meters long, made to look like a dragon,
and painted red, white, yellow, green and black. The races begin with a ceremony honoring the
Dragon King.

Other traditions focused on traditional medicines and practices that were intended to prevent or
cure illnesses that were common in the summer. The herbs used in this period included wormwood,
mugwort, elsholtzia (Aromatic Madder) and cattail. These leaves are placed around the house
usually above doors and windows. Baths, salves and balms using herbal medicines are widely used.
Children wear necklaces with bags of herbs. Some use a branch from the peach tree with immature
peaches, and sometimes wrap it with the herbs. Other traditions include placing wormwood or
mugwort leaves behind the ear before sunrise on Dragon Festival.

Realgar was believed to be an antidote for poisons, cure for disease, and effective in driving
away evil spirits and insects. Traditionally many men drank ‘Spring red liquor’, which was
white liquor colored with realgar, and it was used to write wang, the character for king on the
forehead of male children. Some still drink this or some variation of traditional white liquor
with their zongzi. Unfortunately Realgar is Arsenic sulfide and potentially very poisonous.

Later the people of the Chu Kingdom began to commemorate the death of 屈原Qu Yuan (~340-278 BC),
the famous poet and advisor to the king during the last years of the Chu Kingdom during the
Warring States Period (475-221 BC). At about the young age of 36 Qu Yuan became an important
advisor in the royal court of the three aristocratic families of the Chu Kingdom. Qu Yuan proposed
the development of peaceful relations and alliances with other states in this turbulent period,
because the Chu Kingdom was relatively weak. He was opposed by the more ambitious and corrupt Jin
Shang, the king’s aide, and Zhenxiu, the Queen’s consort. The honorable devoted Qu Yuan lost
favor in the court and he was banished by the king.

Living in exile Qu Yuan wrote many poems expressing his sorrow and distress for declining corrupt
state of affairs of the Chu Kingdom. At about 278 BC the Qin Kingdom defeated the Chu and captured
the capital.Qu Yuan was heart broken, because his beloved Chu Kingdom lay in ruins, disgraced and
betrayed by the corrupt royal families. In despair Qu Yuan committed suicide by holding a stone in
his arms and jumped into the Miluo River near present day Changsha in Henan Province. The
traditional belief among the Chu people is that Qu Yuan committed suicide on the fifth day of the
fifth lunar month. This symbolic self-sacrifice by Chu Yuan may have be made at this time in the
tradition of Chinese custom to make sacrifices at this time to prevent disasters from befalling
the people of the Kingdom. In commemoration of Chu Yuan’s passing the people of Chu continued
the tradition of throwing bamboo tubes filled with rice into the Miluo River on Dragon boat
Festival Day in memory of him as people all over China continue to do today. Chinese chose this
day as a memorial to patriots, because of Chu Yuan’s sacrafice to his country. Today, throwing
zongzi in the river is said to feed the fish and/or the dragon to prevent them from eating Chu
Yuan.

Many of China’s traditions, festivals, cultural characteristics, early technological
achievements can be traced to the region of Zhijiang and Jiangzu Provinces indicating that it is
the likely primary region of origin of Chinese culture and civilization.


Frank

Go with the flow the river knows

Turn weapons into peace and friendship with gifts of jade-silk.
化干戈为玉帛



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Chinese Tutor - 这 dots -

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
这 dots
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OneEye -

Sometimes I see 这 written with 2 dots over the radical and sometimes it is only one. In Pleco it
has 2 dots (but not in the magnified frame) and in other places it has only one. Pleco isn't the
only place I've seen this (HanziHelper has it too, but only when you print out character practice
sheets). Is it a variation or is it an error?



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muyongshi -

Which radical? I just checked my pleco and there isn't two dots (at all). Not sure what it is that
you are seeing...










skylee -

The difference may be due to different print fonts.

As far as I know, this is how the character should be written ->
http://www.csulb.edu/~txie/azi/d5e2j.gif












OneEye -

Skylee, I think that's what it is. Some of the characters look like different characters in Pleco
than in other fonts. 还 is another, and 着. I think some of them have to do with the size of the
fonts, so certain strokes don't show up or they get distorted. I'll have to tinker with it (just
got Pleco two days ago).












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Chinese Mandarin - Pronunciation in dictionaries and in reality -

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
Pronunciation in dictionaries and in reality
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Luoman -

I`ve noticed that the pronunciation of some characters in dictionaries and in reality differs a
lot.
For example:

熟 in 成熟. Dictionaries say shu2. But everyone seems to say shou2.
血 is xue4 in dictionaries and xue3 in reality.
处 in 处女. It is chu3 in dictionaries and chu4 in reality.
灸 in 针灸. Dictionaries say jiu3, but everyone including Chinese doctors pronounce it as jiu1.

So I want to ask: is it that the dictionaries do not keep up-to-date or everyone`s prononciation
is not right?

Any more examples of this phenomena?



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gougou -

塑料 - suoliao.










muyongshi -



Quote:

So I want to ask: is it that the dictionaries do not keep up-to-date or everyone`s prononciation
is not right?

It's both in a way but think about how much work it takes to update a dictionary. It doesn't
happen every year. According to the standard everyone's pronunciation then is wrong. But they do
realize that language morphs and so there is always discussions going on of what changes to make.
But those thing take time. Until they can come to conclusions to change the things everyone's
pronunciation is wrong. But since it takes time all the dictionaries aren't keeping up to date.
Make sense?

Here's another one 一模一样 and even my input has the wrong pronunciation. It should be yi mu
yi yang (don't believe me 查一下) but I think a majority of people say yi mou yi yang.



Quote:

风/ 風 should be fēng in 普通话 but almost everybody pronounce it 'fong'.

Never heard this (regional difference?) so I don't think everyone says it.










Luoman -



Quote:

but think about how much work it takes to update a dictionary. It doesn't happen every year.

But isn`t there a new edition of 新华字典 nearly every year? So I guess this dictionary is
just being reprinted, not changed, right?










gougou -



Quote:

So I guess this dictionary is just being reprinted, not changed, right?

It is being changed, sometimes to public outcry...










muyongshi -

But pronunciations don't change...

And I just talked to some of the profs at my uni (that sounds funny) and they said the majority of
language experts don't believe that they will ever change the official pronunciation system. The
bigger problem in their mind is to get people to say it right. But they also made a odd
distinction between pronunciation 成熟 shou or shu and tone 针灸. How did they make this
distinction you ask? By saying 那是声调的问题。。。










Luoman -

便秘. Everyone says bianmi. Dictionaries say bianbi.










trufflepig -

Mold 模具
dictionary has mu2ju4

everyone else says mou2ju4


yes - someone PL-ease explain 血 - xie3 xue4 ....xue3 to me.... this has been bugging me for years










muyongshi -

Do a search please...this has been discussed so many times it hurts my head!

But because I'm so bloody nice...

http://www. /showthread.php?t=4593

http://www. /showthread.php?t=9706

模 character is very interesting it is pronounced wrong now in two situations... hmm
要研究一下










muyongshi -

And don't you mean they say it mó not móu?












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Chinese Online Class - A question about the Unihan Database by Unicode -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Computing and Technology
A question about the Unihan Database by Unicode
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Xi'Er Dun -

I have a question about the Unihan Database by Unicode, it regards the amount of
Chinese-Japanese-Korean-(Vietnamese) [CJK (V)] Characters (ie. Hanzi, Kanji, Hanja, Chữ Nôm/
Hán Tự/ Chữ Hán) included in the encoding Unihan Database Unicode character set(s).
How many CJK Characters (ie. Hanzi-Traditional 繁體漢字 and Simplified 简体汉字,
Kanji-Kyuujitai/Shinjitai 舊字體/新字体 漢字, Hanja 漢字, Chữ Nôm 字喃/ Hán
Tự漢字/ Chữ Hán字漢) are included in the general Unihan Database, and how many are
there in the Unihan extended database(s) too?
Does the Unihan Database include all Characters that are entries in Morohashi Dai-Kan-Wa-Jiten
大漢和辭典, Cihai Zidian 辭海字典, Kangxi Zidian 康熙字典, Hanyu-Da-Zidian
漢語大字典, etc.

Is there a Unicode Unihan expert on this forum, if so could they please answer my questions?

謝謝您

如何も有り難う御座い升


希爾頓從



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imron -

I'm not sure what you mean by the extended database. Unihan is just one big collection of chinese
characters. Perhaps you are confusing this with the Basic Multilingual Plane (BMP) and the
Supplementary Multlingual plane (SMP)? Altogether though, the Unihan database contains information
for 71226 unique code points (and obviously, some code points have more information than others).

Regarding the dictionaries you mention, I'm not sure if Unihan contains all the entries from those
dictionaries, however it does list information about the dictionaries it uses.

If you visit this page, it lists dictionary indice information for all the dictionaries used to
compile/cross-check the database. Following the link to a given dictionary will tell you how many
dictionary indices exist in Unihan database for that dictionary. Therefore there will be at least
that many characters in the database from that dictionary and possibly more (I say at least,
because the information is listed as provisional and so might not be complete).

E.g There are dictionary indices for 55812 characters from the 汉语大词典 Hanyu Da Cidian,
70205 from the Kangxi etc.

Suffice to say, regardless of whether it contains all the characters in those dictionaries, Unihan
is almost certainly the most comprehensive database of CJK characters.










trevelyan -

I'm under the impression it doesn't contain all of the entries in the 康熙字典, although the
missing entries are mostly variants.












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Speak Chinese - Random new word of the day - Page 32 -

> Learning Chinese > Grammar and Vocabulary
Random new word of the day
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Page 32 of 32 First < 223031 32






rob07 -

而立之年 (er2 li4 zhi1 nian2) - 30 years of age. Literal translation would be something like
"the age at which one stands firm" based on the passage below by Confucius where he explains where
he was at each stage in his life. I saw it in 阿Q正传, where it is heavily sarcastic.

子曰：吾，十有五，而志于学，三十而立，四十而不惑，五十而知天命，六�
��而耳顺，七十而从心所欲，不逾矩。



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roddy -

超级党代表, chāojí dǎngdàibiǎo - super-delegate












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Study Chinese - Database Error -

> Announcements > Bug Reports / Help
Database Error
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muyongshi -

For the last couple weeks at least I have been getting many "database error" messages. Won't let
me connect for anywhere between 2 and 10 minutes and then I have to re-login. Any idea what is
going on?



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woliveri -

I just got the same thing about 20 minutes ago.. now it's ok (without relogging in).










muyongshi -

I had it again (I've lost count by now) for about 5 min over an hour ago and i was on of the first
to log back on because there was NO users online.










gato -

Server problem probably.










roddy -

Yeah, I'm currently trying to clear my inbox of several thousand automated error reports, seems
like a server problem caused a bit of trouble. Hopefully back to normal now.

Muyongshi, are you getting any specific error message? Or just a generic 'database error'. If
there's anything specific can you email it to admin@ when it happens - it seems this happens to
you more often. I can see that there have been almost daily episodes of this, but it's normally
something like a minute at a time and it would be unusual for any one user to repeatedly come
across it. Plus it shouldn't require logging back in, hence I'm wondering if there's something
else at work (though I have no idea what )










muyongshi -

I am pretty sure that it is just a generic database error but I will check carefully if it happens
again (keeping my fingers crossed). In regards as it seems to happen to me more often...I think I
just get unlucky more often.










roddy -

Well, someone's got to be unlucky. Fortunately, it's not me

Sometimes database records can get mixed up and cause problems, but I've only seen it happen with
topics before, never a user so I doubt it's that Usage figures are up quite a bit (maybe 25% over
the last couple of months) so it's also possibly we're outgrowing the current hosting set up.

As for this particular episode, seems to be associated with a massive number of requests from
someone in the Ukraine. IP ban in place . . .










muyongshi -

Good. For a minute I was worried that I was doing it. You never know with this being Mianyang. All
the military set-up's, nuclear research, space program, and the like. Oh is that top secret?










muyongshi -

Just happened again and it is just a general error. The error reads as follows:

Database Error
The database has encountered a problem

Wonder if our Ukraine friend is back...










roddy -

Nobody worry about the five minute outage just then, I know exactly why it happened. Oh yes,
exactly why . . .












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Chinese Mandarin - Rate next Australia Prime Minister's Mandarin -

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
Rate next Australia Prime Minister's Mandarin
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rob07 -

Kevin Rudd is the current Australian Leader of the Opposition. If you believe the polls, he will
be prime minister before the end of the year. He previously worked as a diplomat for several years
in Beijing and claims to be fluent in Mandarin.

Hu Jintao is in Sydney for APEC, so Kevin took the chance to try out his Mandarin. One of the
Australian newspapers posted a video and this should be a link to it:
http://media.smh.com.au/?rid=31424&c...reaking%20News

I'd be interested to know how good people think he is.



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carlo -

Pretty good, very understandable (with some Aussie accent but that's reasonable -he's not running
to become China's Prime Minister LOL).

I would be proud of having a PM who can speak a foreign language like that. Some politicians can
barely speak their own language properly. uh, and I wondered why they cut the video, I was
interested in hearing the whole story...










gato -

He sounds like he's at least conversationally fluent. His pronunciation is above average. It does
sound like he learned his Mandarin in Beijing as the "er's" are fairly noticeable.










skylee -

Not bad.










wannabeafreak -

Depressing. I wish I could speak like him.










johnd -

Sounds pretty impressive to me - the Chinese visitors will really appreciate it.










md1101 -

very decent. and im glad he's confident enough to use it. i was wondering why they cut it off...
then i realised.. most people watching that video wouldnt have had a clue what he was saying!










md1101 -

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/...783466709.html

Looks like our foreign minister Alex Downer itsn't too happy Rudd is getting points for speaking
mandarin. (jealous maybe?)

And he seems to be trying to say he learnt French in 2 months:



Quote:

"I did the French language course and Mr Rudd did the Chinese language course. I did mine in two
months and he did his in two years, that could say something about him and me or something about
the two languages. I think the former but that sounds a tad partisan."












muyongshi -

I don't know to much about the guy but that is a bit big-headed and quite self important. Makes
himself look kind of stupid too in mind.

edit: these comments are referred to Downer's response to Rudd.










tiffsmith -

Bleh, you know he had that rehearsed since the day he decided to get into politics. ;)

我是 妒忌的 :P












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Chinese language - help with a chinese quote for a tattoo - Page 2 -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations
help with a chinese quote for a tattoo
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Lu -

I would translate 无毒不丈夫 as 'if you are not evil/bad (lit. poisonous) you are not a man'.
Not sure if that is what you mean, what I get from your explanation is more that the world
sometimes forces people to be bad, but that in an ideal world being bad would not be necessary.



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bnguye22 -

hmm... is it not possible for chinese sayings to have more than one meaning?

does anyone know who the author actually is? was he/she a horrible person?

Bryan












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Chinese Class - lovemandarin.com - Page 2 -

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Luobot -

Elina,

Sorry I wasn’t being clear. I should have said, “tabbed browsing” rather than just tabs.
Here are the Chinese characters that I found to say this: 选项卡浏览. I’m not sure if this
is the generally used translation of “tabbed browsing” or just Microsoft’s translation for
PRC simplified characters. For Taiwan, Microsoft uses: 索引標籤式瀏覽. Perhaps someone else
knows if this is the current, commonly used, popular term. It seems like too much of a mouthful to
me.

Fortunately, Gato provided an excellent explanation of what I was referring to. Just to be
perfectly clear, if you look the graphic in Gato’s post, you can see 3 tabs open in the browser
window.
From left to right, they are:
Cnn.com – Breaking news, U.S., World …
The New York Times – Breaking news, World …
WSJ.com – U.S. Home

When the [X] in the upper right hand corner of the window is clicked, then the entire browser
window, including all 3 or 300 tabs, will close. This is a function of the browser rather than how
your site is coded. Both Firefox and IE7 has this functionality. Since this is a feature of the
browser, it’s not necessary to code your site any particular way. Whichever way you code it, the
user can open links in a new “tab” of the same window rather than as an entirely new window.
Then the user can easily move from one tabbed screen to the next and back without opening,
closing, or reloading pages again and again. It’s a more efficient way of working, I think, and
it’s probably why tabbed browsing is so popular that Microsoft felt compelled to copy it from
Firefox.

However you decide to code your site, some will be unhappy with links that open in the same
window, and some will be unhappy with links that open in a separate window, but you can tell users
about tabbed browsing and that it will solve their problem either way. For anyone not familiar
with tabbed browsing, I suggest just trying it out, and it will become quickly clear. For a free
download of Firefox, see here: http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/

(Full disclosure: I use Firefox and I recommend it over IE. )



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elina -

We use IE6.0 and have never used Firefox before. Yesterday afternoon we downloaded it from the
link given by Gato. Today we had more time and began to learn it, many thanks to the patient and
excellent teachers of Gato and Luobot, we understand it very fast.

At present we think our site is convenient for the following 3 kinds of people to surf:
1. visitors using IE6.0, if they want to open a link in the same window, other than in a new
window, now it’s the situation on our site, but before our site opened a link automatically in a
different new window.
2. visitors using IE6.0, if they want to open a link in a new window, SHIFT+click can do.
3. visitors using Firefox (or maybe IE7.0 judging from the above 2 posts, we have not learnt it
yet), CTRL+click can let people open a link in a new tabbed browsing in the same window.



Quote:

(Full disclosure: I use Firefox and I recommend it over IE. )

Going to love Firefox than IE for this “tabbed” characteristic, and maybe other advantages we
still have not found.










gato -



Quote:

Going to love Firefox than IE for this “tabbed” characteristic, and maybe other advantages we
still have not found.

Firefox doesn't give websites as much control over your computer as IE. Therefore, there's less of
chance that bad programs (e.g. spyware) will infect your computer. However, many mainland websites
are designed for IE 6.0 and may not work perfectly with Firefox or even IE 7.0. I use Firefox as
my primary browser and keep IE around as a backup.

A great thing about Firefox is the ability to add features with "add-ons." One of the best add-ons
for Firefox is "Scrapbook," which allows you to save web pages into organized folders (like you do
with bookmarks), with an ability to search the saved pages easily.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/427
ScrapBook

There are also many add-ons helpful to those learning languages such as these below for Chinese:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/fir...inese&status=4












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Study Chinese - A list of online Chinese-English dictionaries -

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
A list of online Chinese-English dictionaries
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xuechengfeng -

I'm not sure if this has been done, or if this is the right area to even post this, but I think we
should collectively supply links to good Chinese-English English-Chinese online dictionaries. It
seems like every time someone helps me with a translation, they have a good dictionary I never
knew existed.



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skylee -

Even if we list them here soon they would be forgotten and then people would still keep asking
what this and that means. And the problem of typos in the original material won't be solved.

Anyways, these are in my favourite (some of them accept traditional only; some of them simplified
only) ->

英漢字典 - English-Chinese Translation Dictionary

Dict.CN 在線詞典

愛詞霸-在線詞典

百度词典搜索

林語堂《當代漢英詞典》電子版

國語辭典

新华字典

MDBG free online chinese english dictionary

教育部成語典

異體字字典

榮陽數位化醫學字典

Chengyu Dictionary - An english dictionary of chinese idioms (I've bookmarked this site but have
not really used it)

Chinese Computer Terminology System










wai ming -

I think it would be good if we could make this list a sticky










gato -



Quote:

I think it would be good if we could make this list a sticky

Or maybe just adding the best of them to this thread:
http://www. /showthread.php?t=9739










Luobot -



Quote:

Or maybe just adding the best of them to this thread:
http://www. /showthread.php?t=9739

That thread is so long, it needs its own "Best of the Best" index.










gato -



Quote:

http://www. /showthread.php?t=9739
That thread is so long, it needs its own "Best of the Best" index.

The idea was that the best would be listed in the first two posts.










Luobot -



Quote:

The idea was that the best would be listed in the first two posts.

Oh, now I see. Thanks for pointing that out to me. And then I was going to suggest that it should
be a "Link to Love" only to realize that the link to that thread is a sticky under "Resources and
General Study Issues" -- so there is a method to the madness here!












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Chinese Mandarin - Is Raksha another name for Iron-Fan Princess? -

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
Is Raksha another name for Iron-Fan Princess?
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antoineblanche -

Hello eveyone:

Sorry for this silly question of mine.

I came across the movie title Jade Raksha (Yu Luo Cha). If I am not mistaken, Luo Cha is another
name for Iron-Fan Princess in "Journey to the West". However, many websites - including Wikipedia
- indicate that Raksha means "protection" and is designated to someone benevolent

I am confused because the name Luo Cha is used for women with short temper just like Iron-Fan
Princess.

Isn't that a little off to compare "Luo Cha" to "Raksha"?



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skylee -

You can find an interesting theory on this webpage ->
铁扇公主的来历（不要笑，这是很严谨的考证）



Quote:

这鸠摩罗什原为一个印度婆罗门教徒之子，后来皈依了佛教，曾卜居西域诸�
��国之一的龟兹（今新疆库车）。他父亲名叫鸠摩炎，其祖原籍印度，世代��
�国，将嗣相位时舍俗出家，东度葱岭，到达龟兹。龟兹王听说他舍弃荣华富
贵而修道，心里十分敬佩，亲自郊迎，尊为国师。龟兹王有个妹妹，年方二�
��，聪慧超群，过目能诵，一见鸠摩炎，心生爱慕。龟兹王得知，即迫使炎��
�其妹成婚，婚后生罗什。鸠摩罗什后来在这里也娶了当地一位已经出家修行
的公主；当时在西域并不严格奉行僧侣的独身生活，因此鸠摩罗什也生了孩�
��。

看到这里，兄弟如醍醐灌顶，恍然大悟。真相大白，一切水落石出。很明显�
��，这“鸠摩罗什”乃是梵语kumarajiva的译音，“鸠摩”是姓，“罗什”是名�
��“鸠摩”、“牛魔”，读一下，发音是不是很像啊，还有“罗什”、“罗��
�”，是不是也很像啊？哈哈。原来这铁扇公主罗刹女就是嫁给鸠摩罗什的龟
兹国的公主啊，因为是“罗什”的媳妇，所以自称为“罗什女”，中原内地�
��译音不同，给叫成了“罗刹女”。想着“罗刹”是西方鬼国的名字，其国��
�貌丑且凶，而铁扇公主端庄娴淑、温婉大方，怎么会自称“罗刹女”？（关
于这一条，到现在都有很好的例证，例如美国总统bush，内地翻译成“布什”
，香港翻译成“布殊”）。龟兹国的这位公主可能叫“铁珊”或者“缇莎”�
��么的，龟兹国地近火焰山，而《西游记》里也有提示，说红孩儿是在火焰��
�修行的，估计实际上就是在龟兹，红孩儿当时如此弱小，铁扇公主肯定要照
看，那地方又异常炎热，铁扇公主当妈妈的经常拿着个大芭蕉扇给孩子扇风�
��结果被人传说成了拿着个芭蕉扇的仙人，到了内地，就给叫成“铁扇公主��
�了。














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Learn Chinese - ZDT: Most annoying things about the ZDT - Page 2 -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Computing and Technology > ZDT Flashcards Forum
ZDT: Most annoying things about the ZDT
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bogleg -

Tiantian -

Yeah, I realize the Handedict (and Adso) dictionaries are quite a bit slower then cedict. The
handedict dictionary is actually almost 3 times larger then cedict. I've been playing around with
things like database indexes and such, and while I've been able to speed up 'exact match' queries
for character and pinyin, it doesn't help much with 'contains' or definition queries. Anyway, what
I'm really saying is I need someone with more database experience than I have to help me out.

I like your font idea. Let me see if I can get it in to the next release. I've also thought about
integrating Hanzilookup before, but it's licensed under the GPL which doesn't seem compatible with
the ZDT's EPL license. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eclipse...#Compatibility

Chris



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bogleg -

Luobot -

1 & 2) Let me see what I can do for this next release.

3) Not going to get into 0.7.0 final, but I definitely would like to make it one of the major
highlights of the next, next release.

Chris










PJPoon -

Could you create a feature and provide an update site so that I can install ZDT in Eclipse instead
of running it as a stand alone RCP application?
Other than that ZDT is an amazing program.










peterjez -

I want to echo what most people have said. ZDT is not annoying. It's a great program.

Here are some ideas I have:
1. Have some information about categories next to the category name: (number of words, maybe like
an average score to tell you which category you should study).
2. Use flash cards from multiple categories. What if I wanted to just do this overall test that
tested from all my categories at once, or maybe a specific category?
3. Make categories more like folders. I've been reading Dragonball Z in Chinese and I have a
category for each book that I read. Now I have read 20 different books, and have 20 different
categories and it's hard to navigate through. I wish I could just group them all into one
Dragonball category. This could help with my idea #2. Previously I was just creating another
category called AllDB and putting words in there from all the DB categories.
4. I want to be able to search a category for a word. Sometimes I find a mistake in one of the
flashcards (like maybe the pinyin is wrong), but then the list is 300 words long. Finding that
word is kind of annoying.
5. Are there really other plugins for ZDT? Because I haven't found any.
6. We need an online place to share categories. I've spent many hours just creating my dragonball
categories for example. If only I could share them.
7. Here's a far out idea: what if I could enter in some text and then ZDT automatically extract
flash cards for me. For example, maybe I read an online article that I want to study. Then I input
all the article's text and then ZDT could extract all the relevant words (maybe based on your own
scores of words, or frequency that the word appears in the language).
8. Why are scores stored in the word in the category and not universally? For example, I can have
one word that I have in two different categories, but my score for that same word could be
different. Scores should be stored in the dictionary itself or something, that way each time you
access that word, you can update your score for that word.
9. Like Idea #1, why not put your scores next to the words in the category list?
10. My final idea which I brought to you in another post: make this tool usable for Chinese
learning English.

Hahah sorry to overload you and thanks for hearing me out










rabbit -

Dear Chris,

ZDT is really excellent!

There's just one small thing which I'm actually missing a lot: I'd like to have the option to see
the definition instead of the character in the pinyin recall test mode.

If that functionality would be included, ZDT would be perfect for me!

Thank you so much!
Uwe










bogleg -

@PJPoon - Can you explain why you'd like to do this?

@peterjez - I like a lot of your comments. I'm adding a link to your post to my todo list. Let me
comment on a few of them though.

2) You can already use flashcards from multiple categories. In the flashcard dialog where you pick
your category to test, use ctrl-click (Windows) to select more than one category.

5) Right now, the plugins not included with the main program install are the dictionary ones
(adso, and handedict) and the sound plugins. I've written a simple chinesepod one for demo
purposes, but I haven't published it.

6) Email me (fongcn at gmail dot com) any word lists you've created. I have a bunch of user
submitted lists posted here: http://zdt.sourceforge.net/main/wordlist_index/

Chris










PJPoon -

Well, I always have Eclipse open and I pretty much do everything with Eclipse, so wouldn't it be
great if ZDT could also be used in Eclipse without having to run ZDT by itself? Since it's an RCP
application, it shouldn't be too difficult to do this right?










cming -

1. From a beginner's perspective the default font size is too small, just make it a few points
bigger. (I know this is easy to do once installed, but better if you could somehow make it larger
by default). I also agree with other comments here about having a different font for pinyin and
hanzi, that would be a lot easier on my eyes.

2. Being able to jump straight to the stroke order when you are in the flashcards, without having
to reset or end your session would be great.










bogleg -

@PJPoon - Well, I'm not sure. I don't think you could just drop in the plugins into your Eclipse
folder and have it just "work". Would you have a ZDT perspective? I myself have Eclipse open all
day for work, and I've never had the urge to have ZDT embedded in it. Still, if you're an Eclipse
guy, maybe you could do the proper modifications and show me the light.

@cming - The program just uses your system's default font and size. I don't really want to mess
with the defaults since it's different on the every platform (Windows, Mac, Linux) and everyone
has their own preferences for what they like. For example on my Mac, the text is very tiny by
default, but I just hit Ctrl + a couple of times and I'm good to go. I will try and incorporate
your stroke animation idea though.

Chris










toads -

Three small requests:
* The ability to batch import files into their own category. As it stands, if I want to import
say all 11 wordlists for colloquial chinese into zdt it takes a *lot* of mouse clicks.
* The ability to see the stroke order of the characters on the current flashcard (maybe a
keyboard shortcut?), as was mentioned before.
* The ability to give an "importance score" to a vocabulary item in flash card mode, i.e. a
number from say 1 to 5 representing how important something is; a higher score could give the
card a bigger weight in the interval filter or something.













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Chinese Mandarin - Chinese Exams - Page 3 -

> Learning Chinese > Resources and General Study Issues
Chinese Exams
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heifeng -



Quote:

Pinyin for most, but not all.

hey, roddy, i've been looking through that book recently and it seems like the words that don't
have pinyin are for the "practice" sets, and are listed in 50 single character and word sets, just
as they would be on the putonghua exam. For the most part everything else has pinyin though.



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heifeng -

Ok, Here is my write up for the CATTI level three consecutive interpretors exam: ( I reserve the
right to add more as I recover my memory and reflect more on it)

So the exam basically has 2 parts: zonghe, which is English listening comprehension and the Shili,
which is divided up like this: duihua: (20 pts), Eng=> Chi (40 points about 300 words), Chi=>
English (40 pts about 200 characters). We took the zonghe in the am, and the shili in the Pm.

I don't really need to comment too much on the zonghe since if someone is really interested in it
you can look up info here: www.catti.net.cn. Basically it is English listening comprehension were
you get some true and false questions and some A-D questions, fill in the blank of an article that
they read word for word, and then summarize in English an article that you hear. I had to take
this section..but I am assuming I am the only native speaker that took it~but Karma's evil and
I'll get to that at the end...[see below}

the Shili exam left me with the following impression:

Vocab: Nothing was really terribly hard, or not as hard as I thought it would be (class and
practice exams were harder), but you need to regularly read newspapers, know about the olympics,
about trade, the environment, current events...etc. If youdo, then you should be fine. I was
getting kinda nervous before the exam and memorized a ton of UN departments, and various US and
China Government Department/Ministry names...etc. They didn't pop up, but it was good to know them
once and for all. If you are NOT well read on such things then you will bump into problems. I
think the hardest thing they had was just talking about low carbon emissions and energy
efficiency, so they don't get really specialized, but general knowlege is important.If you get the
exam booklets prep materials, those are HARD! but very very very interesting, so I highly
recommend them as a tool to improve your Chinese studies, listening comprehension (gotta get the
tapes too though), etc. Otherwise you can look at the UN website and find some biligual articles
and such.

Numbers: You really can't bs with the numbers. In note taking (you only hear everthing once, the
longest segments are probably 3 sentences long, and then they give you time to record) you need to
take them down correctly, then you have to make sure you convert them correctly. I had practiced
this and have overcome my general number confusion I suffered from before, but I know didn't write
down some numbers in the Chi=> Eng section because to many came up at once..ughh. On some I didn't
get them to the last 'one's' place, so I just said more than 2 thousand or something~So definitely
lost some points there. Oddly NO number scame up in the Eng=> Chinese sections! drats! There
numbers probably are one of the areas that will hurt me in my score. I think I got a majority of
the numbers correct, but I think that when I interpreted some things that had percentage increases
and decreases my grammar and word choice had some issues. Note to myself and anyone else, make
sure you are very good with giving correct numbers and correctly expressing what you are trying to
say.... I should have definitely practiced this even more....(although to be honest I was dreaming
about number conversions all last week)

Speed: The general speed is OK. It's not super slow or anything (very 'near' to normal speaking
pace) and since it is an exam mainly for Chinese students the Chinese seemed faster than the
English to me, but it's just probably my inaccurate assessment.


Recording: In the duihua section the time they gave you to record was very quick so you couldn't
really think about it, you just had to go for it and interpret right away. In the other longer
sections the time is fairly long, but the people talking around you will get quiet towards the end
so somehow this ends up affecting your own speaking speed. However, there IS a bit of time to
first organize your thoughts and then speak, which helps a bit. Also you are 'permitted' to a
certain extent to listen to the person next to you. I mean you can't make it obvious, but if you
get stuck and can't remember what one of the details were you can listen a bit. However I got
stuck next to someone who would listen to my English and repeat me which threw me off so I had to
talk a bit lower hehe..

Paper: Oh, they give you 4 sheets of paper for notes which is more than adequate. I think I use 1
sheet both sides if I write small, but probably used about 2 sheets.

Scoring: I have no clue whatsoever. You need a 60 in the zonghe and shili section to pass.

Me: I think I did decent, if I were to give myself a grade based on my past practice exams I would
give myself a 65 in the Shili. Nothing great, but enough to scrape by. I'll report my score
later...unless it is really bad, then don't come asking! But it'll be interesting to see how I
think I did and how they tell me I did....kinda frightening

General Thoughts: This exam has helped me realize that I really want to work on my Eng=> Chinese
translation skills (yes, written first, then interpreting). I think that in terms of general
communication I don't run into any problems, but once I want to express something very
complicated, especially to interpret accurately what someone just said, completed with a long
sentence and a ton of modifiers, things get a little messy. (of course depending on the type of
interpreting simultaneous or consecutive and how you shorten sentences and the order that you
speak can vary....but i'm just generally sayingI had to go back to my grammar book and look up the
order of adjective modifers 名词修饰语的排列秩序in Chinese because I kept screwing those
up when I listened to my recordings. Oh, by the way listening to your recordings is a very
tramatizing, but helpful tool in general. I think that my Chinese=> English was ok and besides my
numbers I made only 1 silly mistake I think ( the passage said 2 countries
were名副其实的近邻 and instead of playing it safe I somehow convinced myself in that
fraction of a second that they said 金邻 (yes I know different tones! hindsight is 20/20!!),
which isn't a word I guess but I thought (once again in that whole fraction of a second) that
those Chinese expressions are so abundant they must be saying something about being such super
good neighbors being good as gold and somehow I ended up saying something to that extent and I
dunno, I'm hoping they already paid attention to the begining and completely forget about my very
last sentence) . Also my English to Chinese..hmm...how do I say it... I tried my best, it's not
pretty, but I think it gets the idea across somewhat well enough. The C=>E, E=>C are equal in
scoring but quantity wise there is more E=>C which is a bit nerve wracking


Karma & Don't Assume the proctors know what they are doing, or even that you know how to properly
read the exam instructions listed in the website: Ok, so as the likely only native English
speaking person taking this exam you would think that I should get a perfect score on listening
comprehension, right? Well, I 'SHOULD", but let's just say (and I've already been torturing myself
over this for the last 2 days) that I didn't quite realize that we had to use pen on the written
portion of the listening comprehension score and now my test in that section may be disqualified
since I used pencil all the way through. ( The most tragic, yes tragic part of this is that this
was TRULY a "cough cough cough" ran exam in the level of disorder at the exam, the procters were
watching me write in pencil lalalala and then pointed out to me and said, write your name in PEN
on the scantron and the booklet. I then asked pencil for everything else, right? and got a
yes/grunt in response. Later on I realized (as I thought to myself why is everyones summary pen,
that's not right!!!) that the exam regulations (NOT PRINTED ON THE EXAM, but on the 3rd sheet of
our 准考证, which I of course didn't take outta my bag since we had to check those) stated to
use PEN in the 主观section of the exam....but since this was the first time I took it , i guess
I was under the assumption the actual EXAM would say use pen RIGHT HERE...but now I probaly failed
the English listening comprehension, and even if they grade it they will have think I cheated
since I can guarantee you that I have a 100 percent in that section, but it's all in pencil so
they are probably burning my exam as we speak wondering which reader I must paid off to fill in my
answers......sigh...


So that's all I can think of now. Besides from my uncertain score b/c of pencil-gate, I did find
this a very positive and motivating experience. I took classes on the weekends for this exam for
the last 2 months, and in the end our 班长and two students were picked for getting a special
'improvement' award. I was one of the students, which I don't think I just got b/c of the laowai
factor, but towards the end of the training I was suddenly able to hear things and organize them
in my mind and then just spit it out while many students where still trying to hide behind their
desks praying not to get called on. Aside from that I've had fun (yes, fun) sitting down and
taking notes during the nightly news and reading back and forth with my Japanese classmate who
will take the Japanese version of the exam in April.

Regardless of my score, I'm going to go for the level 2 exam next, and try to improve my
Eng=>Chinese 笔译 to build a sturdier foundation and this exam has definitely given me that
language goal that I needed to keep pushing myself.

----
I also reserve the right to fix all the typos later...yawn...


[edit] even thought the passing rate is less than 10% i am mildly optimistic b/c this was a
generally good experience, but also because many people who actually take the exam have not
prepared at ALL. I mean, even our teachers said that they get recordings of pure silence and even
the guy sitting next to me seemed to give up after a while. Therefore I think that if you
eliminate those people, the passing rate should be much higher Plus, what they say is true, just
speaking a foreign language isn't really enough to be good at translating/interpreting~ memory is
quite improtant, plus a bunch of other things...










roddy -

Excellent stuff, thanks for doing the write up. Hope they don't take offense at your use of pencil.










heifeng -

yeah, me too. sigh.










Josh2007 -

Can you take a translation test that is just one-way? Eg Chinese into English but not t'other way
round? I understand that usually translators are not expected to translate into a language that is
not their mother tongue, right?










heifeng -

[edit] apparently the bnu putonghua ceshi in february is just for current degree students so ya'll
have to go to
shoudushifan daxue where satan's lil' helper works to take the exam if you are in bj ...since they
have it there almost every month










roddy -

Here's another one for you which I at least haven't heard of - the 汉字应用水平测试. As
far as I can tell this is a new one, and has only been trialled in 2007, and is due to be rolled
out nationwide 2008-2009.

Covers 5,500 Chinese characters (for comparison the HSK totals 2,800 I think, so you're looking at
about double that), divided into three levels of 4,000; 500 and 1,000. Odd distribution.

There doesn't seem to be much information out there about this one, but there is a 大纲
published.

Not sure that this one is actually of much use - it seems to be being touted for entry to public
servant positions, journalism and so on, but there are already exams for that - 公务员考试,
and one for reporters - not sure how widely used these are though. But could be useful for anyone
who wants to learn loads of characters. I had a look round for an online 子表, but no joy. There
are some sample questions though.

Anyway, will look forward to your post-exam report, heifeng. Good luck!










Jenny311 -

It's interesting to read your experi ence. I was on the same boat with you, but opposite
directions.-- I just finish my MA degree learning on Translation & Interpreting, going throught
all those painful note-taking and memerizing stuff. But I'm a native Chinese. Maybe we can be
helpful to each other.

Looking forward to your exam result, too.










heifeng -

Congrats on finishing your degree! What exams have you had to take to become certified in the UK?
I am definitely interested, and I am sure there are others that are quite interested, in your
experience pursuing your M.A. degree if you would like to share

Hmm, I'm not really looking forward to my results since they may potentially put me in a bad mood
for a while. Even so I will ~probably~ post them online....they are out in just over a week or
so....

By the way happy new year and Chinese exam taking in the upcoming new year to all the forum
members hehe










roddy -

Not sure if this would be better off as a separate topic or not, but will have one of our admin
folk split it off if it becomes necessary. I'm asking here as it's relevant to the
普通话测试,but it's maybe not only relevant to that.

I've been presented with a copy of the 普通话测试指要, which is apparently out of date but
features the 现代汉语常用字 (2,500) and 次常用字 (1,000). I wanted to have these as I
like lists, even if they're not of much practical value. Lists allow me to calculate, divide and
plan, without the need for any actual study.

Anyway, the book has these lists, in pinyin order. However, I can't find online any versions of
this list which are even ordered by pinyin, much less contain pinyin or any other value added
information. All that's available is a stroke-ordered version, ie.

Does anyone know of anything in electronic format for these lists? I have looked, but only as far
as page two of Google.












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Speak Chinese - Politically correct term for 农民 - Page 2 -

> Learning Chinese > Grammar and Vocabulary
Politically correct term for 农民
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889 -

I have no problem calling 农民 nongmin "peasants" in English, but for those who do I'd suggest
"villagers".



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Luobot -

The term “peasant” seems to go through periods of trendiness, for example, peasant skirts and
peasant dresses, and best of all, vegan peasant bread.










roddy -

Depends on the context and who I'm translating for - I'm under instructions not to use it for one
client - but I'll usually end up with either peasant, farmer or rural resident. Sometimes
villager, maybe. Locals.

The word peasant does sound odd, but you'll see the likes of the BBC use it, and I'm quite happy
to defer to them on matters of style. In some cases you are talking about people with little if
any money, no land or an insecure hold on the land they have, no power to speak of, and who are at
the mercy of those who have money, land and power. If there's a better word than peasant I don't
know what it is.










alexamies -

I think that countryside people or countryside residents is the best suggestion that I have heard
although it is not perfect. I have not been referring to migrant workers specifically but the
suggestion prompts me to think that maybe there is scope to use a different term depending on
context.. Several sentences like this from an article on Xin Hua's web site led me to ask this
question:

农村税费改革取消了延续２６００多年的农业税，农民人均减负约１４０元�
��农村改革正步入以促进农村上层建筑变革为核心的综合改革新阶段。

However, I hear the term 农民 many times daily in conversations, particularly because I am
staying in the outskirts of Beijing at present, and watch them as I catch the bus into town. I am
glad to hear that the BBC uses the term peasant - there couldn't be a much better reference for
style and I am sure that they have battled with the use of the term too.










mandel1luke -

agricultural folks?










ABCinChina -

Well me and my girlfriend have thought about this one and just use "farmer". It fits the best, but
I suppose countryfolk could also work.










studychinese -

I thought that 农民 = farmer. If 农民 is peasant, then what is 庶民? Also, if 农民 is
peasant, then how do you refer to someone that is a person on a farm?










muyongshi -

I think farmer should be the correct term in translations even though the dictionary refers to it
as peasant.

The thing about a peasant though is that it was used under a feudal (I sure hope I am getting that
right) where a peasant (also called a surf) was the caretaker and planter of the land which
belonged to the Lord's. The land was solely taken care of by them for sustenance by the Lord's
would take the majority of the crop as a "fee". So, the word peasant in English just doesn't work
as it carries a certain connotation.

Maybe we should make this a poll and vote on it...










zhwj -

Context makes a difference: On a recent subtitling job, one woman in the film was talking about
anti-rabies campaigns, and how the local farmers were handing their dogs over to the authorities
because they were afraid of steep fines. She was using 农民, which I translated as "farmer"
throughout.

Then another woman chimed in with the single word 农民, said very dismissively and drawn out. I
figured that "peasant" captured her tone of voice fairly well.










muyongshi -



Quote:

Then another woman chimed in with the single word 农民, said very dismissively and drawn out. I
figured that "peasant" captured her tone of voice fairly well.

I would agree with you on this that peasant would definitely have the feel of "those peasants"
(the last part being spit out). Definitely has the feel of an insult to it. Farmer can too but
that would depend on the tone but since you are subtitling there is no tone. Quite clever.












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Learn mandarin - Today I saw a rainbow plunging into the ocean - Page 4 -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations
Today I saw a rainbow plunging into the ocean
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madizi -

老王卖瓜，自卖自夸。



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roddy -

ahem. He's praising a sentence from last month Unless he didn't read the thread and came up with
exactly the same thing, in which case it must be right










skylee -

If he was praising that sentence, then I apologise for not having read the whole thread through.










fishyqs -

I try to explain the usage of "倾没" in this sentense, but I worry my poor English can't manage
it. So I will use some chinese in my explaination, please excuse me.

In my opinion, we can't tranlate this sentense by it's literal meaning for the expression of the
word "qing mo" is vivid in chinese but not in English. As you know, words of chinese are always
consisted of chinese character, and in this sentense, the word "倾没" also include two character
"倾" and "没", each character means a movement.

"倾没", which is consisted of two coherent movement, can describe the static state of rainbow to
a conherent process, especially the movements "qing" and "mo" have 独特的意象.
“倾”是带有强大力量快速弧线下落，“没”是缓慢的无声的动作，有凝固�
��感觉。这两个字的连用描写了一幅运动的庞大的彩虹图画。So I think if we
want to translate this sentense, we should use the English with the same power , instead of
translating it literally.












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Free Chinese Lesson - Translation of advertisement -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations
Translation of advertisement
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billam -

Hi everyone,
Could someone please translate the following into English?
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/6272/adjz9.jpg



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chinlearner83 -

The advertisement's about a skiing trip. I think 'skiing' is the right word. Anyhow, it contains
the rates based on where you stay and where to meet the driver. Costs are for gratuities, rooms
(based on occupancy) and classes. Sounds like fun..... at least they have heat!












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Learn Mandarin online - A Cantonese idiom : “唱念经歌”. -

> Learning Chinese > Non-Mandarin Chinese
A Cantonese idiom : “唱念经歌”.
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Myriam -

I recently learnt that “唱念经歌” is a Cantonese phrase to express one's discontent at
listening to a singer who apparently doesn't connect with*/relate to their audience.
Is there a 普通话 equivalent for “唱念经歌” = 不好听的歌，
因为*我/你觉得*歌星不知怎么connect with* their audience, 所以我/你不喜欢?



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studentyoung -



Quote:

I recently learnt that “唱念经歌” is a Cantonese phrase to express one's discontent at
listening to a singer who apparently doesn't connect and/or relate to their audience.

“唱念经歌”? Hmm, I haven’t heard of it. What I often hear in my daily life is
“唱歌唱到好似念口簧” or “唱歌唱到好似喃无念经”. Are these what you’re
talking about?



Quote:

Is there a 普通话 equivalent for “唱念经歌” = 不好听的歌，
因为歌星不知怎么connect to their audience, 所以我/你不喜欢?

I don’t know the 普通话 equivalent in such a case, but you can try
“唱歌唱得好像背书一样，一点感情都没有” or
“唱歌唱得没有一点感情”to express the similar idea.

Thanks!










skylee -



Quote:

“唱念经歌”

I've never heard such an expression.










Myriam -

It's often light-hearted humour (ie ) as opposed to sarcasm and the like. eg :
我：*lalala, singing along* "我好鍾意聽。。。唱歌，你呢?"
朋友："哦，我覺得唔好聽，我哋話。。。唱念經歌!"
我：*stopping the music* "噉樣啊...，噉我哋聽。。。啦。"










Quest -

Maybe 朋友 was saying “唱歌唱到好似念经噉。” It's not a 成语。










Myriam -

Nevermind then. She said : "我哋話。。。唱念經歌 "
Thanks for your help Quest.










realyunzhi -

"唱歌唱得好似念经咁“

it's common to hear when sb' s singing is unpleasant or less of sentiment。

not ”唱念经歌“！










Myriam -

I used a dictionary to make this :










skylee -

I suppose there is no way to convince the OP that "唱念經歌" is not an idiom / phrase in
Cantonese. Everyone responded (#2, 3, 5, 7) said that there was no such an expression but hey here
comes a recording.

Makes me feel that I've wasted my whole life speaking Cantonese. I should probably have myself
傾沒在海洋裏 ...










Myriam -



Quote:

I suppose there is no way to convince the OP that

You can call me Myriam, I think it's a pretty name for a girl .












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